Subject	Isn't the NA (or any non-forced induction engine)
Posted by	Audioquest on November 29, 2007 at 10:31 AM
	This message has been viewed 26 times.
In Reply To	False. It would actually go to 0. posted by MixManMash on November 29, 2007 at 09:35 AM
Message	manifold always neg to some degree unless you kill the engine? Otherwise how does the air get into the cylinders without negative atmospheric condition caused by downward piston motion to induct it?
Follow Ups	Would the acceleration of a TT be the same as an NA - robo (sebring1970) 07:40:36 11/29/07 TT motors are lower compression - BlackholeZ 07:42:41 11/29/07 That, and the differential wouldn't allow it to accelerate - viper498 08:18:16 11/29/07 He said all else being the same "gearing..." (n/m) - PennStateZ 09:52:19 11/29/07 thank you. my original question sort of sucked. - robo (sebring1970) 09:59:33 11/29/07 Indeed he did. Sorry about that. (n/m) - viper498 11:22:25 11/29/07 I would expect the TT to make more power than the NA - ZEngineer 08:18:20 11/29/07 But don't you have to boost before that makes a difference? (n/m) - viper498 08:20:16 11/29/07 nope, I'm talking about the energy spent to negate vacuum - ZEngineer 08:24:08 11/29/07 But if you lost compression in all of the cylinders in an NA - viper498 08:26:53 11/29/07 what spools the turbos? (n/m) - Guapo 08:50:34 11/29/07 midgets in low RPM, then leprechauns take over above 3k (n/m) - ZEngineer 08:59:36 11/29/07 little rat-basta.... (n/m) - RSR 09:11:57 11/29/07 =) (n/m) - ZEngineer 10:50:25 11/29/07 Leprechauns take over at ~2750 with downpipes :) (n/m) - Slow3z 09:15:00 11/29/07 Residual heat mostly that would otherwise be wasted. (n/m) - ZCulture 10:26:29 11/29/07 but yes, there would be very little of that - ZCulture 10:29:11 11/29/07 residual heat spools the turbos? I thought it was exhaust - Guapo 10:41:13 11/29/07 Yes, it's the exhaust flow but it's the heat energy - ZCulture 11:22:24 11/29/07 Your logic is good... - PennStateZ 11:59:10 11/29/07 fair enough :) (n/m) - Guapo 12:00:33 11/29/07 I would tend to agree as my guess would be that - Audioquest 08:52:19 11/29/07 Negative VE? - Chris-TTZ 09:31:47 11/29/07 Isn't any non-forced induction always less than 100% - Audioquest 09:58:23 11/29/07 less than 100% VE is not negative VE. - Chris-TTZ 11:48:22 11/29/07 Not really =). - Kenny 11:05:02 11/29/07 you suck air, and you're trivial. (n/m) - ZEngineer 11:20:04 11/29/07 No, even at neutral pressure, the Twin Turbo sticker - brahmabull (CT) 08:25:06 11/29/07 LOL! - viper498 08:28:26 11/29/07 Doah! I'm down to 250. I replaced my wing I have no sticker! (n/m) - Audioquest 10:23:50 11/29/07 My thoughts... - Barry'z (NJ) 09:27:37 11/29/07 False. It would actually go to 0. - MixManMash 09:35:33 11/29/07 Isn't the NA (or any non-forced induction engine) - Audioquest 10:31:34 11/29/07 No. At wide open throttle the manifold pressure will show up - MixManMash 11:40:02 11/29/07 I find it hard to believe that our intake tract - Barry'z (NJ) 13:32:39 11/29/07 not quite zero, but pretty close. (n/m) - BlackholeZ 14:13:43 11/29/07 you've got it backwards - ZEngineer 09:37:50 11/29/07 now you're confusing me - robo (sebring1970) 09:41:16 11/29/07 It rotates whenever the engine is running. - MixManMash 09:50:07 11/29/07 to my way of thinking, a TT should run about the same - robo (sebring1970) 09:32:21 11/29/07 that's because it's wasting energy spooling up the turbines - ZEngineer 09:39:52 11/29/07 really? spooling the turbos is that much of a parasitic - robo (sebring1970) 09:42:40 11/29/07 I would think so - ZEngineer 09:54:54 11/29/07 but it's all passive, that's why forced induction with a - robo (sebring1970) 10:02:29 11/29/07 Do you mean more power than without turbos? - TriniTT 10:45:05 11/29/07 That's because you can't WOT it without going into boost - TriniTT 09:47:52 11/29/07 that makes sense, and it's so obvious. no wonder I - robo (sebring1970) 09:49:57 11/29/07 do you not understand compression ratios? (n/m) - Spee 00:04:35 11/30/07 sure I do. my original question was not phrased very well. - robo (sebring1970) 09:33:03 11/30/07 Drugs are bad. (n/m) - Bernie (NoVA) 09:43:08 11/29/07 For better or worse, this is my state of mind au naturale (n/m) - robo (sebring1970) 09:48:47 11/29/07 TT w. blown turbos is slower then a NA. (n/m) - Bernie (NoVA) 09:55:37 11/29/07 All else being equal, the NA would be faster. - PennStateZ 09:55:45 11/29/07 Fact: TT engine outputs more power after 2500RPM - ZCulture 10:25:23 11/29/07 I assure you it isn't. (n/m) - Kenny 11:12:49 11/29/07 Overlay TT and NA dyno charts and see for yourself. (n/m) - ZCulture 11:28:22 11/29/07 Alright man, here ya go. - ZCulture 11:40:29 11/29/07 Re: How do you do the comparison? - IB 12:30:42 11/29/07 That's how the simulator shows them. - ZCulture 14:05:36 11/29/07 Re: That's how the simulator shows them. - IB 18:15:54 11/29/07 If you mean with spooling turbos, you're correct - TriniTT 11:34:45 11/29/07 Yes, I wasn't really answering the question. - ZCulture 11:38:16 11/29/07 "I wasn't really answering the question." - PennStateZ 12:07:34 11/29/07 yes, but with stock turbos you're already in boost (n/m) - Guapo 11:50:10 11/29/07 stop posting (n/m) - Spee 23:59:34 11/29/07 can you force the wastegates open - apudapus 11:09:17 11/29/07 NA would be faster - NytWolf 11:33:17 11/29/07 no offense, but this may be the most retarded thread - fantomZ(OH) 11:57:42 11/29/07 bench racing on the internet rawks - fourZero 12:20:02 11/29/07 Someone answered this question a few years ago. - SpdDemon13 (Japan) 12:53:07 11/29/07 according to effective compression analysis - gt300zxtt 23:26:54 11/29/07
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